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Police launch gun crime strategy
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Mick F
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeilMac wrote:
The letter is from the editor, Camilla Clark. I recall she's in Home Counties somewhere. Certainly the editorial office is in central London so she must be somewhere in that neck of the woods - maybe Essex even?
Best Wishes,
Neil Mac'

Nice try on the bite Razz
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
NFFID, NFLMS, NBIP, NCIS... hmm... okay Mick, over to you... this is clearly a job for a bureaucrat. Wink

Having difficulty then? Try and keep up, after all, you do proclaim your expertise.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeilMac wrote:
Mick F wrote:
NeilMac wrote:
Quote:
Criminal gangs often pass guns to one another

I'd never have thought of that...

Clairvoyance is wonderful. I suppose you know all about criminal gangs then? Where they get their guns from and who they pass them on to?

Well if you know all about it why don't you do something?
Best wishes,
Neil Mac'

I do actually, within the remit of my job. As I don't know all about it, but clearly do more than you...... I'm still waiting to find out what you've done about it....

You've also yet again managed to evade the original point that led to mine. This quoting thing isn't too hard, it just requires a bit of time but it makes more sense.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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Mick F
Certified Gun Nut


Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeilMac wrote:
Quote:
And you're also an expert on NFLMS? I suppose you could tell me how the info from NFLMS feeds into NBIP then?

Is there an expert on NFLMS?

Yep.
NeilMac wrote:
How long has it taken to implement?

Seems like ages doesn't it
NeilMac wrote:
Even now it doesn't work if you want more than a certain number of rounds

As Carrot says, we've done that.
NeilMac wrote:
[or if you haven't declared a place where you want to use your shotgun - not that there's any such requirement in law.

I really believe everything I read in ST, in fact, if you saw the last point I made on shooting near a carriageway, you might realise that they don't quote everything and their job is to sell copy Rolling Eyes
NeilMac wrote:
So if the useless tossers

Oooh, such language. Does it make you feel better to swear on line? Does it give you a warm glow? Rolling Eyes
NeilMac wrote:
who came up with NFLMS can't make a system where all the information is provided work how can we be expected to have confidence that they can create a database where the data is fragmentory?

If the shooting organisations hadn't been feeding their tame MP's questions, there wouldn't be questions in the House and their wouldn't be this unseemly haste to get it rolled out.

All we wanted was what we'd got with a few more bells and whistles and linking in to PNC for the Section 39 part. Trouble is, we're not allowed to do that, we have to go to tender and so on. Fine blaming public servants, but you voted for the policies they have to live by.....
NeilMac wrote:
"The suspect refused to say how many shots he fired in the post office so we were unable to complete an entry in the, err, database Sarge'."
Best wishes,
Neil Mac'

ROTFLMSO........ not
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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NeilMac



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 981
Location: UK Midlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
NeilMac wrote:
Mick F wrote:
NeilMac wrote:
Quote:
Criminal gangs often pass guns to one another

I'd never have thought of that...

Clairvoyance is wonderful. I suppose you know all about criminal gangs then? Where they get their guns from and who they pass them on to?

Well if you know all about it why don't you do something?
Best wishes,
Neil Mac'

I do actually, within the remit of my job. As I don't know all about it, but clearly do more than you...... I'm still waiting to find out what you've done about it....

You've also yet again managed to evade the original point that led to mine. This quoting thing isn't too hard, it just requires a bit of time but it makes more sense.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)


Come along now Mick, It hardly takes a genius to surmise that criminal gangs often pass guns to each other. If you're going to snap at me for pointing that out don't be surprised if I send one back. I should hope that you do more about it than I do - it's part of your job. In the event that I find any intelligence about criminal use of firearms you can be assured that I do take action.

Anyway, what about the NFLMS needing an entry for where the arms will be used? True or not?

Best wishes,

Neil MAc'
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeilMac wrote:
Mick F wrote:
NeilMac wrote:
Mick F wrote:
NeilMac wrote:
Quote:
Criminal gangs often pass guns to one another

I'd never have thought of that...

Clairvoyance is wonderful. I suppose you know all about criminal gangs then? Where they get their guns from and who they pass them on to?

Well if you know all about it why don't you do something?
Best wishes,
Neil Mac'

I do actually, within the remit of my job. As I don't know all about it, but clearly do more than you...... I'm still waiting to find out what you've done about it....

You've also yet again managed to evade the original point that led to mine. This quoting thing isn't too hard, it just requires a bit of time but it makes more sense.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)

Come along now Mick, It hardly takes a genius to surmise that criminal gangs often pass guns to each other. If you're going to snap at me for pointing that out don't be surprised if I send one back. I should hope that you do more about it than I do - it's part of your job. In the event that I find any intelligence about criminal use of firearms you can be assured that I do take action.

That's the problem, I don't think it was so obvious. If you know anything about gang culture, you'd realise it's not that common for them to talk.

It was only when we found out about a dealer loaning out guns

NeilMac wrote:
Anyway, what about the NFLMS needing an entry for where the arms will be used? True or not?
Best wishes,
Neil MAc'

My knowledge of NFLMS is quite extensive and I'm pretty certain it's not true. However, we don't have it yet, albeit we were involved in two succession criteria trials and the user assurance testing. Maybe it was a Section 1 shot gun?
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4631

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
cybershooters wrote:
NFFID, NFLMS, NBIP, NCIS... hmm... okay Mick, over to you... this is clearly a job for a bureaucrat. Wink

Having difficulty then? Try and keep up, after all, you do proclaim your expertise.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)


So I take it you don't know then. Actually I do know the difference between NCIS and NFLMS, and I knew there was a national database on ballistics data, however I admit I don't know the difference between NBIP and NFFID. NCIS has (or had) a national database for tracking guns that showed up in crime, I seem to recall that was going to be merged with something else (NFFID?) and possibly taken over by someone else... is that NBIP?

Sorry but keeping track of all the bureaucracy on this subject is not an easy task.
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Mick F
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Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
cybershooters wrote:
NFFID, NFLMS, NBIP, NCIS... hmm... okay Mick, over to you... this is clearly a job for a bureaucrat. Wink

Having difficulty then? Try and keep up, after all, you do proclaim your expertise.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)

So I take it you don't know then.

Funnily enough, but I do. I'm on one of the four, albeit it takes info from the other three, which in fact are two.
cybershooters wrote:
Actually I do know the difference between NCIS and NFLMS, and I knew there was a national database on ballistics data, however I admit I don't know the difference between NBIP and NFFID. NCIS has (or had) a national database for tracking guns that showed up in crime, I seem to recall that was going to be merged with something else (NFFID?) and possibly taken over by someone else... is that NBIP?

It's pretty much that, which would have been a whole lot easier to say and pretty much confirms my points previously.
cybershooters wrote:
Sorry but keeping track of all the bureaucracy on this subject is not an easy task.

Not sure what you mean by bureaucracy. You mean you don't have different computer systems that get upgraded and can do similar tasks which are national?
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What, you mean you support doing things nationally? Hmm... now what bureaucracy could that philosophy be applied to... Razz

I'm all for them merging two systems into one, doesn't mean it makes it easy to keep track of what's going on.

I know someone who has worked in NHS IT project management for years, when she explained all the changes over the past 20 years my head hurt.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
What, you mean you support doing things nationally? Hmm... now what bureaucracy could that philosophy be applied to... Razz

I do and support loads of things nationally, doesn't mean I think they will work. For example, I see the benefits of a national licensing system, in fact everyone saw a benefit of having their own systems link into PNC. However, the reality is rarely what's envisaged. I could give examples of many govt national systems that have not worked as the users or indeed the public have wanted. What makes you think your idealistic control board, based on current control levels will be any different? Imx your silk purse will undoubtedly be a pigs ear, but reap what you sow Razz Razz
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by bureaucracy. You mean you don't have different computer systems that get upgraded and can do similar tasks which are national?


We have systems that are regularly upgraded / replaced - most businesses do - but the "Finance System" remains the Finance System, and the "CRM System" remains the CRM System regardles of brand or enhanced functionality, they merely grow in scope and capability to meet new demands, sometimes through replacement, sometimes through upgrade. For guns we may need databases of "Gun Owners" and "Guns", and for criminal use detection we may need a "Ballistics Database", but I think the continual attachment of new names to improvement initiatives, system expansions etc. is more to do with being seen to change than delivering that change - change can be delivered without apparently needing a revolution each time, which often seems to be the way with public sector projects. It does happen in the private sector too, but its more about PR than anything else - all the publicity about Sainsbury's "new" logistics systems was simply designed to tell customers that Sainsbury's were doing something to improve, whereas Tesco, being in the lead, didn't feel the need to broadcast to the world that they were doing similar systems improvements.

FWIW

craggy
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
I do and support loads of things nationally, doesn't mean I think they will work.


Wow, out of the horse's mouth. Laughing
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
I do and support loads of things nationally, doesn't mean I think they will work.

Wow, out of the horse's mouth. Laughing

I've repeatedly said on here things which allude to the above and tmk I've never lied. I tend to be a bit old fashioned like that, rather than say one thing on here and another elsewhere Shocked
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
Not sure what you mean by bureaucracy. You mean you don't have different computer systems that get upgraded and can do similar tasks which are national?

We have systems that are regularly upgraded / replaced - most businesses do - but the "Finance System" remains the Finance System, and the "CRM System" remains the CRM System regardles of brand or enhanced functionality, they merely grow in scope and capability to meet new demands, sometimes through replacement, sometimes through upgrade. For guns we may need databases of "Gun Owners" and "Guns", and for criminal use detection we may need a "Ballistics Database", but I think the continual attachment of new names to improvement initiatives, system expansions etc. is more to do with being seen to change than delivering that change - change can be delivered without apparently needing a revolution each time, which often seems to be the way with public sector projects.

I'd love to give one of you IT guru's the specs we currently have and what we want, just to see if it is as simple as is maintained, and obviously with the same budget Very Happy That is a serious point, not a dig and I'm sure I've mentioned it before.

I understand the scepticism and must admit, I do wonder at times, but there's a history of the left hand not talking to the right in the public sector and tendering has had a largely detrimental affect imv in that process eg the best licensing system we've got is xyz. They can build a link to PNC and to abc (national Intelligence system) and link into NFFID and probably NBIP. However, they didn't get the contract because of tender and the fact they put a realistic timescale on the programme. Is that right?
craggy_steve wrote:
It does happen in the private sector too, but its more about PR than anything else - all the publicity about Sainsbury's "new" logistics systems was simply designed to tell customers that Sainsbury's were doing something to improve, whereas Tesco, being in the lead, didn't feel the need to broadcast to the world that they were doing similar systems improvements.
FWIW
craggy

As my brothers on the Tesco's project, I wouldn't be shouting any IT revolutions if I were them. I mean, how simple is it to mark your table in a room plan to replace your computer and submit a list of what programmes you have access to? And I thought the public sector was bad. At least we'd get somebody to make a proper plan and find out who worked where Very Happy It might be bureaucratic, but it solves many problems.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, I'm sure Tescos have more than one project on the go I wasn't referring to the trivial (and often poorly managed) business of rolling out new PCs, but the business of expanding / replacing national logistics & supply chain systems - comparable in scaler to anything in the public sector. Sainsburys shouted to the world about theirs (and incidentally cocked it up!) - Tescos neither shouted nor publicised to the best of my knowledged.

Probably someting in the project manager's rule book somewhere that there is a direct corellation between project visibility and failure rate!

craggy
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