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What is the procedure for putting off ticket guns on ticket?

 
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Alex Hamilton



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Berkshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:51 am    Post subject: What is the procedure for putting off ticket guns on ticket? Reply with quote

I am thinking of getting a .310 Cadet rifle for close range target shooting, but there are some grey areas that I have to solve first. The bullet is a heeled variety, which will require a custom made bullet mould. Cases can be difficult to get too.

So, I intend to buy a rifle off ticket and once I am satisfied that it is in good condition I would apply to put it on ticket.

What is the procedure for doing that and are there any snags that I should be aware of?

Thanks,

Alex
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Double10



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shoot a 310 cadet which, now I have the right mould and have sorted a good load is very accurate. I simply wrote to the Licensing dept and told them I had an antique which I wished to shoot. I sent my FAC with all the details, make number etc and it was back in week. It would probably take 3 months the way they are performing now Confused Several people in my club shoot antiques and have them put on ticket and taken off all the time.

Alex - let me know if you want any info on loads, cases etc. I don't think I have enough posts to pm you but could contact you via your website
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4589

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apply for a variation, in this case though you actually specify in the application the make, calibre and serial number rather than just saying one rifle in such and such a calibre. Probably a good idea to attach a note explaining what you are doing. Send in your FAC with the application, they add on it provided they are satisfied with your "good reason".

I've never done it for an antique, but I've done it for guns I've imported where I knew exactly what I was importing.

You cannot write on your own FAC, only the police force responsible for that FAC or someone who has an FAC or an RFD and is transferring a firearm to you can legally do that.
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Carrot Cruncher



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 751

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greener's sponsored a competition for "Miniature Rifles" in the early 1900's, and specified that their .310 was the only allowable cartridge. In subsequent years the two Morris calibres were allowed, then eventually .22RF. The competition died out with the outbreak of the Great War.

Try using off-the-shelf Winchester .32-20 in it, which works well, though you'll have to get this added to your ticket.
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NeilMac



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 981
Location: UK Midlands

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double10 wrote:
I shoot a 310 cadet which, now I have the right mould and have sorted a good load is very accurate. I simply wrote to the Licensing dept and told them I had an antique which I wished to shoot. I sent my FAC with all the details, make number etc and it was back in week. It would probably take 3 months the way they are performing now Confused Several people in my club shoot antiques and have them put on ticket and taken off all the time.

Alex - let me know if you want any info on loads, cases etc. I don't think I have enough posts to pm you but could contact you via your website


Did you find yourself in the ludicrous situation whereby a firearm that could safely be hung on the wall one day became such a threat to public safety on the next that it had to be locked away?

I'd just been thinking about doing the same with my Martini Henry.
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Double10



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeilMac wrote:


Did you find yourself in the ludicrous situation whereby a firearm that could safely be hung on the wall one day became such a threat to public safety on the next that it had to be locked away?


Yes. and when it comes off ticket it will be safe on the wall again - utter bo*****ks.
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, I'm sure the Home Office is working on something to make sure they stay on FAC permanently after the result of Mick's case. Confused
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Alex Hamilton



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Berkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double10 wrote:

Alex - let me know if you want any info on loads, cases etc. I don't think I have enough posts to pm you but could contact you via your website


Thank you for that very encouraging information. I have enabled my email address so you can contact me off list, but the interest this thread has created suggests that others might be of interested, so please continue here.

I am thinking of ordering the bullet mould from NEI in US once I have bought a rifle and measured the groove and bore size of the barrel. I have heard that some actions (Greener) will accept 32-20 cases, whilst others will not close on the 32-20's thicker rim. I have no equipment to machine case rims, so my preference would be 310 brass. Is it available anywhere?

What bullet mould do you use?

As for loads, I would start low, say 3 to 4 grs of Unique, and work it up in small increments. I would like to use the rifle for target shooting up to 300yds, so I would need to achieve muzzle velocity sufficient to keep the bullet supersonic all the way to the target. As the bullet cannot take gas checks I will be limited to approximately 1400 ft/sec and that may not be enough bearing in mind that the bullet is not streamlined - more like flying brick! Very Happy

Many thanks,

Alex
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andrew375



Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 165
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe RCBS make the correct, heeled, mould.
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peteslinn



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you can get .310 cadet brass (Bertram) from Henry Krank.
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Double10



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of 310's used in my club, the chambers and headspace seem to vary quite a bit. I don't know of anyone who has fired 32-20 rounds in one. One shooter with a BSA 310 uses the RCBS mould, his rounds will not chamber fully in my rifle, a Westley Richards. The mould I use came from here, delivery was very quick and emails quickly answered, the mould is a 310 Cadet No2.

http://www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com/custom.htm

It is of excellent quality and I am very pleased with it.

I use a set of C-H/4-D Custom Dies;

http://www.ch4d.com/

A friend picked these up for me at a Bisley arms fair, along with some converted 32-20 cases. I don't recall the supplier but can find out if you are interested.

The favoured load seems to be 4.5g/4.6g of Unique, I have used this at 100yrds and others have used it at 200yrds with good results.

Some people have had problems with neck tension and have used one of the Loctite products to provide consistent grip. I have had no problems with neck tension, I think this may be due to case neck thickness. Bullets are lubricated with a smear of Lee Liquid Alox
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Alex Hamilton



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 80
Location: Berkshire

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double10 wrote:
The mould I use came from here, delivery was very quick and emails quickly answered, the mould is a 310 Cadet No2.

http://www.castbulletengineering.bigpondhosting.com/custom.htm

It is of excellent quality and I am very pleased with it.


Very interesting Australian supplier that makes the largest selection of .310 moulds that I have ever seen.

Did you measure the throat and bore of your barrel and ordered the mould to match the measurements?

In the blurb on the website is a drawing of .310 chamber and it says there that the chamber diameters can go up to .325". If I happen to get one of those, I'd need the bullet of .325" or I will get leading and no accuracy.

Interesting picture of the fired bullet on that website, showing that the "heel" expanded to fill the grove. That is very unusual with normal cast lead bullets and smokeless powders. Bullets set up on firing with black powder, but with smokeless they do not, hence the need to have them correcty sized or they lead up.

Quote:

I use a set of C-H/4-D Custom Dies;

http://www.ch4d.com/

A friend picked these up for me at a Bisley arms fair, along with some converted 32-20 cases. I don't recall the supplier but can find out if you are interested.


I use some Ch-4d dies too, ordered from them on Internet. Very good service and they are willing to make specials to fit anything.

Quote:

The favoured load seems to be 4.5g/4.6g of Unique, I have used this at 100yrds and others have used it at 200yrds with good results.

I am thinking in the same area, but I would eventually experiment with higher charges of slower powder to get the muzzle velocity up to 1400 ft/sec.

You say that some of the cartridges used by other people in your club will not chamber in your rifle. I assume that you cannot put the cartrige fully in because the bullets are either too large or too long. This is where the problem with heeled bullets is! They cannot be seated deeper in the case, so the only option is to trim back the cases until the cartridge OAL is right. Did you have to do that with yours?
Quote:

Some people have had problems with neck tension and have used one of the Loctite products to provide consistent grip. I have had no problems with neck tension, I think this may be due to case neck thickness. Bullets are lubricated with a smear of Lee Liquid Alox


I take it that you do not neck size the cases and then use a conventional neck expander plug? As the normal Lubrisizer machine will not work with heeled bullets, I am planing to tumble lube them in Lee Liquid Alox.

By the way, I saw that Kynamco make 310 Cadet ammunition, but I have not contacted them for cases. It could be a good UK source.

Regards,

Alex
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Richard Loweth



Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RCBS mould was the one developed by NDFS I think?
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Double10



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my Cadet a number of club members had been shooting them for some time and had done a lot of work on load development. I was in the fortunate position of being able to try several different loads. The loads with the RCBS bullets would not chamber fully due to the length or shape of the bullet but these shoot well in some rifles. I tried some rounds with bullets cast in the CBE mould and these chambered ok and shot very well. I then purchased one of these moulds.

I do resize the necks and the bullets are a snug fit. I seat the bullets using the bullet seating die from my Lee 32-20 die set. I start the bullet by hand and seat with the seating die wound fully down, it is possible to feel the bullet seating on the case mouth. The exposed part of the bullet is then lubed with liquid alox. With no crimp bullet retention probably isn't that great but it seems ok and is quite consistent.
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