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Steyr AUG
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Rob



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 700
Location: Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The principle is brilliant, to get an assault rifle in 2/3 the space. The practicalities leave something to be desired.


Quite, that's my point.

Quote:
If you had a forward ejector, ambidextrous, reliable with picatinny etc rails to allow the attachment of sights, bells and whistles, it'd be good whoever made it.


Shame no-one does!
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes they do.
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Steve.

Only three things are certain: death, taxes and stupid gun laws.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Yes they do.

Nah, the CAR 2000 doesn't allow enough bells and whistles to be attached on your rails. I know the longer barrel version with foregrip is nearly there, but the current 'fashion' is to have everything hanging off your rifle on rails. Put an M4 with forward ejector in bullpup format ......... Maybe the H&K M4, now they have 'experience' of a bullpup design?
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Mick F
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
I was never entirely clear on the shape of the buttstock either because there's a shelf about halfway down so getting a cheekweld is awkward.

That's where the mini bottle of wine or cheese knife go. That or the E&E kit (white piece of cloth with a white cross on a white background thereon)
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Mick F
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Last edited by Mick F on Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
know the longer barrel version with foregrip is nearly there,


This?

Maybe the Israelis will put some rails on the Tavor.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
know the longer barrel version with foregrip is nearly there,

This?
Maybe the Israelis will put some rails on the Tavor.

It's too futuristic looking. Everyone see's what Delta are carrying on 'Blackhawk Down' and want the same if not more. You can't see one nowadays with torch, 'tango down' (gangsta grip), c more sight, UGL? etc etc.

Israeli SF use the TAVOR?
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I had with the F2000 is that it just comes across as a bulky version of the AUG. Trigger pull feels exactly the same and the mag release isn't as positive. Putting a vertical foregrip on it isn't that easy either, you just sort of grip the bulge at the front, it's one of these triumphs of design over function, imo. It was a very S&W Sigma-type experience, it looks cool but it's pretty dull really.

US Special Forces are into the FN SCAR, which is why FN aren't selling any F2000s. The SCAR also underwhelmed me, the only thing I really liked about it was the stock. The trigger pull is just as bad as a stock M16A2.

And then there are about a zillion and one AR-15s with different gas systems, nearly all of which are also underwhelming. The basic problem with nearly all of them is that they've added a gas op rod of some type, which adds weight to the gun, another moving part which can go wrong, but they haven't done much to the rest of the gun, e.g. you still have a long and heavy bolt carrier slamming backwards and forwards.

The only one I've seen that impressed me was the Para TTR, which uses the Z-M weapons gas system. Basically what they've done is extend the gas key all the way to the front sight and wrapped the recoil spring around it (so it's still direct gas impingement). This eliminates gas (and carbon fouling) going into the upper and also eliminates the buffer and buffer spring in the stock. Plus they've shortened the bolt carrier so the overall weight is the same (or less) than it would have been.

So it weighs the same (or a bit less), has the same number of moving parts and is more reliable as well.

I'm sure H&K 416s work great, but they bloody well should for how much they cost!
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
US Special Forces are into the FN SCAR, which is why FN aren't selling any F2000s. The SCAR also underwhelmed me, the only thing I really liked about it was the stock. The trigger pull is just as bad as a stock M16A2.

Not on ops they're not
cybershooters wrote:
The only one I've seen that impressed me was the Para TTR, which uses the Z-M weapons gas system. Basically what they've done is extend the gas key all the way to the front sight and wrapped the recoil spring around it (so it's still direct gas impingement). This eliminates gas (and carbon fouling) going into the upper and also eliminates the buffer and buffer spring in the stock. Plus they've shortened the bolt carrier so the overall weight is the same (or less) than it would have been.

Admit it, it's all of those rails you love Smile
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FN is having supply problems, but I've seen pictures of SEALs on ops using the FN SCAR as well as Rangers.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
FN is having supply problems, but I've seen pictures of SEALs on ops using the FN SCAR as well as Rangers.

SEAL's like it because of the Stoner style 'mix n match.'

There's often a difference between posed pictures and what is actually carried. Still, i can only say what I've seen.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently supplies are so tight they're worried about scratching them!
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Apparently supplies are so tight they're worried about scratching them!

More about swimming long distances underwater with an expensive bit of kit rather than a less expensive bit which it's not so important that it gets rusty. Same as on the hills (or hell week for UDT's), why carry a 'real' rifle? Something that weighs the same and is the same ergonomically ....
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Mick F
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Oddbod



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that the Falkland Islands Defence Force carries the AUG.

So do some Argentine units.

I like the FN F2000 because I'm a lefty & the Kel-Tec RFB for the same reason: front eject.
I still prefer my FAL's & L1A1's though.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm told that the FN SCAR may have been scrapped - apparently procurement funds have been stopped and US Army SF has had to turn theirs in. Like I said it was very underwhelming, I had a Mk 23 feeling.
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