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Hunter safety training and licensing in the UK question
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spyr0



Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorks

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
One upon a time, in a land far away . . . .

What training requirements are there to hunt in the UK? Is there a hunting license similar to the US or German systems?
Thank you,
George in Las Vegas



I think Elvis has left the building.


Isnt that Craggys job?
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4587

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is Craggy anyway, is he still looking for things to hunt on the Isle of Man?
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Steve.

Only three things are certain: death, taxes and stupid gun laws.
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spyr0



Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 30
Location: West Yorks

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know he is still there.

Dont you keep in touch with your moderators Steve?

Wink
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't heard from him in awhile.
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Steve.

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Libertarian_UK



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Rob wrote:
Given the extra level of bureaucratic regulation of shotguns (I won't say "controls", since the only people controlled are the law abiding anyway) since 1988, I can't see any reason why rifles are not treated in the same way as shotguns. Under section 2 shotguns have to be individually registered and stored securely, can anyone really argue that section 1 regulation of rifles is anything more than an exercise in bureaucratic self justification?

Section 2 regulation is as much as any reasonable government should ever want to impose.

The main differences, as I'm sure you know; are 'good reason' and the additional test of 'fit to be entrusted.'

Extra bureaucratic controls? Getting a photo and storing your shot guns securely?
Cheers
Mick F


Already have those controls, no need for any more thanks Smile
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Libertarian_UK



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
I've always thought that one of the reasons people in Britain are so anti-gun is that the police don't carry guns routinely, and when they do it's usually something like an MP5 or a G36 which is far more overt than a pistol.

In other countries, people see the police walking around with a pistol on their hip so they're aware it's just a piece of metal. In GB in particular most people get their concept of firearms from the TV and inane prattling at the pub.

It makes it very hard to have any sort of rational conversation about the subject because most people have no experience of firearms at all, they do not have even a basic understanding of how they work. Inevitably you end up ploughing through TV-generated myths and other claptrap.

But really, urbanisation is the cause of anti-gun sentiment at the end of the day, people who live in cities only really see firearms used in crime on a day-to-day basis. The most urban places are Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore for example and look how tough their gun laws are. The US has a large rural population and so does New Zealand for example and their gun laws are far less restrictive.


You are bang to rights on that.

The UK is a urban mess in the most part.
The country has the real deal and it's head screwed on for the most part.
Many people from urban areas tends to view firearms with a baleful eye.
I've had long arguments with people so brainwashed and worshipful of big government regulation of guns they can't even see the counterargument.

Shooting used to be a noticeable thing in the publics mindset up until the late 80s.
I can recall there being televised shotgun shoots, clay pigeon shooting and the armed forces blowing stuff up on the ranges which was screened.
then a shift to 'mass entertainment' came along more and more and people chose to drain their brains to the religion of football, beer and pubtainment.
Ways of combatting this malaise include spreading the word of how much better it is to be in the open country and away from the mess of city-urban life. Smile
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing that needs to be tackled is the prohibition of advertising of anything to do with guns on TV and radio. I doubt any gun club in the UK could afford TV advertising but being banned from local radio is a significant problem.
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Mick F
Certified Gun Nut


Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertarian_UK wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Rob wrote:
Given the extra level of bureaucratic regulation of shotguns (I won't say "controls", since the only people controlled are the law abiding anyway) since 1988, I can't see any reason why rifles are not treated in the same way as shotguns. Under section 2 shotguns have to be individually registered and stored securely, can anyone really argue that section 1 regulation of rifles is anything more than an exercise in bureaucratic self justification?

Section 2 regulation is as much as any reasonable government should ever want to impose.

The main differences, as I'm sure you know; are 'good reason' and the additional test of 'fit to be entrusted.'

Extra bureaucratic controls? Getting a photo and storing your shot guns securely?
Cheers
Mick F

Already have those controls, no need for any more thanks Smile

who said more were being asked for?
cheers
Mick F
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Mick F
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Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertarian_UK wrote:
cybershooters wrote:
I've always thought that one of the reasons people in Britain are so anti-gun is that the police don't carry guns routinely, and when they do it's usually something like an MP5 or a G36 which is far more overt than a pistol.

In other countries, people see the police walking around with a pistol on their hip so they're aware it's just a piece of metal. In GB in particular most people get their concept of firearms from the TV and inane prattling at the pub.

It makes it very hard to have any sort of rational conversation about the subject because most people have no experience of firearms at all, they do not have even a basic understanding of how they work. Inevitably you end up ploughing through TV-generated myths and other claptrap.

But really, urbanisation is the cause of anti-gun sentiment at the end of the day, people who live in cities only really see firearms used in crime on a day-to-day basis. The most urban places are Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore for example and look how tough their gun laws are. The US has a large rural population and so does New Zealand for example and their gun laws are far less restrictive.


You are bang to rights on that.

The UK is a urban mess in the most part.
The country has the real deal and it's head screwed on for the most part.
Many people from urban areas tends to view firearms with a baleful eye.
I've had long arguments with people so brainwashed and worshipful of big government regulation of guns they can't even see the counterargument.

Shooting used to be a noticeable thing in the publics mindset up until the late 80s.
I can recall there being televised shotgun shoots, clay pigeon shooting and the armed forces blowing stuff up on the ranges which was screened.
then a shift to 'mass entertainment' came along more and more and people chose to drain their brains to the religion of football, beer and pubtainment.
Ways of combatting this malaise include spreading the word of how much better it is to be in the open country and away from the mess of city-urban life. Smile

If Big Brother, Strictly, X Factor, soaps are what most people watch, how are you going to convince them that walking about the countryside with a firearm is more enjoyable? To some it is, but not to the majority. Maybe they haven't tried it, but there definitely isn't any incentive to either.
cheers
Mick F
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
If Big Brother, Strictly, X Factor, soaps are what most people watch, how are you going to convince them that walking about the countryside with a firearm is more enjoyable?


Without access to TV and radio, very difficult indeed.
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Steve.

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Mick F
Certified Gun Nut


Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
If Big Brother, Strictly, X Factor, soaps are what most people watch, how are you going to convince them that walking about the countryside with a firearm is more enjoyable?

Without access to TV and radio, very difficult indeed.

I'm sure there's been mention in 'Countryfile' and other programmes in the 'minor' sky/cable channels of shooting. A recent programme on Wainwrights walks presented by a very presentable young lady hardly had many ratings compared to the big soaps and 'curiosity' shows. If you can't get people to see how nice it is to climb up scafell pike, how are you going to convince them that a Sunday evening stroll in the local woods is more pleasant than watching the soap omnibus?

Even if you could advertise, you're not going to get much in my view because of the mass inertia that abounds. Word of mouth imho remains the best all round, albeit with a caveat that some peoples word of mouth is more valuable than others.
Cheers
Mick F
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Carrot Cruncher



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 751

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Libertarian_UK wrote:
. . . . spreading the word of how much better it is to be in the open country and away from the mess of city-urban life. Smile


You spread the word . . . . they come . . . . thanks a bunch.

Stay where you are please, and encourage all other townies to do the same.
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Word of mouth imho remains the best all round, albeit with a caveat that some peoples word of mouth is more valuable than others.


Gun clubs that advertise on local radio in the US always seem to have larger memberships than gun clubs that don't, imx. I saw a TV ad for Henry rifles last time I was there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTfWomXAN8o
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JonathanL
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 1013
Location: North East

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Another thing that needs to be tackled is the prohibition of advertising of anything to do with guns on TV and radio. I doubt any gun club in the UK could afford TV advertising but being banned from local radio is a significant problem.


Is this a legal thing or just in some guidelines somewhere?

J.
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's in the advertising standards code, you may recall it was reviewed a year or so ago because they were talking about expanding it to include imitation firearms and so on. As it stands now basically only game fairs are exempt.

Personally I think it would be fairly easy to blow out of the water in court but that takes a fair bit of money obviously. It clearly contravenes the Human Rights Act.

I'm not aware of any other country that has such a prohibition, I just looked through the Irish code and even theirs doesn't appear to say anything about it.

To challenge it you would need a gun club I think who was simply trying to advertise locally and had been prevented because the radio station quoted the code.

Quote:
16.2 Firearms and Weaponry

No advertisement may promote the supply of firearms or other weaponry. This includes manufacturers, distributors, gun clubs, combat knives and replica guns. Businesses that supply such items amongst a wide range of other goods may be advertised, provided that there is no promotion of, or gratuitous indication that, the prohibited items are available. References to clay pigeon shoots are permitted only as part of a wider range of outdoor pursuits.


That last sentence means game fairs are okay.

Now technically a gun club advertising isn't necessarily promoting the supply of weaponry, good luck trying to get the radio station to accept that interpretation though. I remember years ago Sandwell Shooting Centre I think it was advertised on the radio and their ads were pulled because of this code. I love the use of the term "prohibited items", i.e. prohibited by the ASA. You are prohibited from talking about them.
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