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New 7.62mm Sharpshooter rifle for troops in Afghanistan
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
It also beat the HK417 already on issue.


On price, I assume. 1.5 million assuming some spare parts and training doesn't work out to many rifles when you factor in the price of the optics. Few hundred at most.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob wrote:
Quote:
Stop calling it 'the 'Stan' it's not. You'll confuse it with all of the other countries to it's north, east and south.

We'll probably end up there eventually, O wise one.

If you only knew Smile Not wise at all. If I was, I wouldn't bite on Carrots snides. Shocked
Rob wrote:
Quote:
Length of the L4? Weight of the L4? Availability of spares including barrels for the L4?

I don't know off the top of my head, look it up. I'd say length about 44 inches, weight about 23 pounds. How does that sound?

It doesn't matter, since they don't exist any more, but if they did, they would be useful. It's established that the chaps need 7.62mm, and the Bren provides that with less hassle than a GPMG. A BAR might be even handier, but I guess that's just too retro, and you'll start asking me snarky questions about availability of 30-06 ammunition.

.30.06 is still available, as is 7.62 x 63. The point I'm making is that the L4 is no more easier to handle than an L7 and you're talking another training requirement. I've fired both on many occasions and I'd rather have an L7 personally.
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Mick F
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob wrote:
The good people at Wikipedia reckon a MkIV Bren is 42.9 inches long, and weighs in at 22.83 lb. Not far off if I say so myself. They also reckon the Indians still make them. Might be time for the MoD to give them a ring, if we are going back to the future.

They also make a No5 retro in 7.62 based on the SMLE. No thanks
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Mick F
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
It also beat the HK417 already on issue.

On price, I assume. 1.5 million assuming some spare parts and training doesn't work out to many rifles when you factor in the price of the optics. Few hundred at most.

Price was one tmk, as was some jamming problems, plus it didn't do as well in the tests apparently. On another bulletin board they talk about replacing the barrels of the new rifle every 200 rounds. It's a target rifle ruggedised, rather than the 417 which is an accurised combat rifle as I understand it.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's apparently a replacement for the L96A1 according to the MoD, so carried a lot, shot a little. H&K do make good barrels, it has to be said.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
It's apparently a replacement for the L96A1 according to the MoD, so carried a lot, shot a little.

That was the point on the L96, carrying a bolt action rifle in a modern firefight. I reckon they'll be used a lot more than the L96's.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AR-10
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
AR-10
Which was the original, and then made into 5.56 for the AR15 as I understand it.

Shall I quote random 7.62mm rifles? I'll see your AR10 and raise with M21
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original AR-10 circa 1952 was rubbish, I remember someone showing me the remains of his. The current crop of 7.62mm rifles that are described as AR-10s are in reality scaled up AR-15s and are only vaguely similar to the original Armalite AR-10.

But they do all seem to be pretty accurate, never been clear on why the US doesn't use one of them as the UK isn't the first country to have that idea.

Oh that reminds me: http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/press/detail.asp?id=82

I have to say that press release doesn't chime in with what I've been hearing.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
The original AR-10 circa 1952 was rubbish, I remember someone showing me the remains of his.
Yes, one submitted for US Army trials about 1958 blew up on the range.

cybershooters wrote:
The current crop of 7.62mm rifles that are described as AR-10s are in reality scaled up AR-15s and are only vaguely similar to the original Armalite AR-10.

But they do all seem to be pretty accurate, never been clear on why the US doesn't use one of them


That's the implicit point of my earlier post.
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Oh that reminds me: http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/press/detail.asp?id=82

I have to say that press release doesn't chime in with what I've been hearing.

Last I heard the Rangers had theirs withdrawn. Can't be 'leading the way' with this particular firearm.
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Mick F
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
AR-10
Which was the original, and then made into 5.56 for the AR15 as I understand it.

Shall I quote random 7.62mm rifles? I'll see your AR10 and raise with M21
Cheers
Mick F


Wakey wakey, not random. If the "L129A1" is - as Cybershooters says - the Knights Armament SR-25, then as near as makes no matter it's the AR-10 with a couple of knobs on, like your M-21 is an M-14. Back to the future.
If you're going to quote anything, how about Henry V before Agincourt ? Something I might enjoy.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it's an LMT, not KAC, not that that alters the argument.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Last I heard the Rangers had theirs withdrawn. Can't be 'leading the way' with this particular firearm.


My understanding is that the SCAR-L is pretty much a dead letter, they only really see a use for the 7.62 version.

Who knows, the DoD is notrious for pissing away money on things they don't need and then 40 years later (like the M14 for example) someone resurrects it from the dead.

I have actually had a go with a SCAR-S and well, it was a 5.56mm semi-automatic rifle. Wow.
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
AR-10
Which was the original, and then made into 5.56 for the AR15 as I understand it.

Shall I quote random 7.62mm rifles? I'll see your AR10 and raise with M21
Cheers
Mick F

Wakey wakey, not random. If the "L129A1" is - as Cybershooters says - the Knights Armament SR-25, then as near as makes no matter it's the AR-10 with a couple of knobs on, like your M-21 is an M-14.

He got it wrong, it's the LEI product, but as you say a derivative of the AR10 albeit they look nothing alike on the outside.
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Back to the future.

I always pictured you as the Doc, and now you've confirmed it Smile
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
If you're going to quote anything, how about Henry V before Agincourt ? Something I might enjoy.

Err, you mean what Shakespeare alleges he said;
Quote:
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."

Cheers,
Mick F
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