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Combat Shotgun
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Carrot Cruncher



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard it from a dealer who intimated that he had been approached. Reliability rating 9 on a scale of 1 to 10, but I just thought I'd run it past you.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Heard it from a dealer who intimated that he had been approached. Reliability rating 9 on a scale of 1 to 10, but I just thought I'd run it past you.

Shooters grape vine, might be right. I genuinely don't know and I doubt my opposite number in the Met would know either. Have they got a box mag fed shot gun that's reliable yet? Most seem to have feed problems I hear.
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Mick F
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:

Shooters grape vine, might be right.
Got a feeling he may have been trying to make me feel inferior. Me !


Mick F wrote:

I genuinely don't know


Please cut out and save for frequent future use

Mick F wrote:
Have they got a box mag fed shot gun that's reliable yet? Most seem to have feed problems I hear.
Cheers
Mick F


Goose guns have been working reliably for about 50 years, but given that they are about as long as a Kentucky rifle and only have a 2-round box, I don't think any police force will be interested.

I suggested one of those Izmash thingies, but the vibe was that they were not so good.

Reliable box mag combat s/g - SPAS 15 ? Apparently the Italian Army has it, so on firing the last round the action locks open and a little white flag pops out of the ejection port.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Mick F wrote:

Shooters grape vine, might be right.
Got a feeling he may have been trying to make me feel inferior. Me !

Him or me? You can always count on me for that Smile
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Mick F wrote:

I genuinely don't know

Please cut out and save for frequent future use
Fair point, but also a rule you may need to take heed of as well Smile
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Have they got a box mag fed shot gun that's reliable yet? Most seem to have feed problems I hear.
Cheers
Mick F

Goose guns have been working reliably for about 50 years, but given that they are about as long as a Kentucky rifle and only have a 2-round box, I don't think any police force will be interested.

I suggested one of those Izmash thingies, but the vibe was that they were not so good.

Reliable box mag combat s/g - SPAS 15 ?

SPAS 15's I first saw were using something like converted bren mags. The Izmash things were what I was thinking about on reliability.
Cheers
Mick F
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
I hear that the Met are looking for a box mag s/auto shotgun ?


Big mistake if they are, imo. There's nothing to recommend them, there's someone in UKPSA who uses a Franchi SPAS 15 with two mags welded together, erm... forget his name off-hand.

Anyway, from any sort of prone position or rested position you have two options, get shot because you can't get low enough, or alternatively, use a shorter magazine, which defeats the purpose of having a box magazine in the first place.

For IPSC no-one is shooting back at you, but even in IPSC they aren't popular. At the end of the day getting a box mag that holds more than six rounds or so and the gun is still manageable is hard because it has to be single stack, a 24" barrelled shotgun can usually have a tube that holds more than that.

There's the argument you can swap ammo over more easily, but you can do that with the Benelli and the magazine cutoff. A shotgun is not a rifle or a carbine, just requires proper training.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
A shotgun is not a rifle or a carbine,

Neither is a shot gun. See legislation and the OED
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Mick F
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm... are you picking me up on the lack of a space there?
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Neither is a shot gun. See legislation and the OED
Cheers
Mick F


Ooooh, get you !
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Carrot Cruncher wrote:
I hear that the Met are looking for a box mag s/auto shotgun ?


Big mistake if they are, imo. There's nothing to recommend them,

There was a US Navy programme to identify a new combat shot gun for the Marine Corps after Vietnam. It died a death, but box magazines loomed large on the wish list.

cybershooters wrote:
Anyway, from any sort of prone position?

How many sorts are there ? You been at the Kama Sutra ?
cybershooters wrote:
get shot because you can't get low enough, or alternatively, use a shorter magazine, which defeats the purpose of having a box magazine in the first place.?
The man with the shot gun doesn't hang around. He blasts away fast, gives the rest of the patrol a moments respite to identify the target, then runs to the safest possible place, as he will otherwise almost certainly be caught in the middle.


cybershooters wrote:
[but you can do that with the Benelli and the magazine cutoff. .
Tube mags are prone to dings.
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Umm... are you picking me up on the lack of a space there?

Yes, why?
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Mick F
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Rob



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time I have ever seen a shotgun referred to as a "shot gun" is in the legislation. I assume it some sort of archaic usage.
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
The man with the shot gun doesn't hang around. He blasts away fast, gives the rest of the patrol a moments respite to identify the target, then runs to the safest possible place, as he will otherwise almost certainly be caught in the middle.


I was talking about police use, different situation.

Quote:
Tube mags are prone to dings.


Maybe, not as big of an issue as it used to be I think, metallurgy has improved. Plus box magazines for shotguns that I've seen look to be prone to the same problem, you could make them from ABS plastic or whatever but then you could do that with a tube too.
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mick F wrote:
Yes, why?


http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/shotgun?view=uk
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Steve.

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Mick F
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Yes, why?

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/shotgun?view=uk

I guess the web isn't as good as the printed word then. Not for the first time methinks Smile

What does on line legislation say?
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Mick F
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the most relevant as it's the most recent: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20040702.htm
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