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Guy Savage to face US export charges
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:30 am    Post subject: Guy Savage to face US export charges Reply with quote

Yet more. Hatton rounds sound a bit OTT. Justice Dept. press release.

Wall Street Journal.
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch !

Each count of violating the AECA carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and a $1 million fine. The conspiracy and making false statements charges each carry a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The maximum penalty, if convicted of wire and mail fraud, is 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for each count. Finally, the smuggling goods from the United States charge carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it will boil down to whether he was seen as acting against US interests. The State Dept. has been very tough on granting licences for machineguns since about 1998. Since then exports are generally only approved to a short list of friendly governments.

So if Guy was exporting to those governments and just couldn't be bothered with the paperwork, I doubt it will be a big deal, if he was exporting to people the US wouldn't export to, that's a different issue.

But there's more to it than that because not only was he not giving them DSP-83s, he was also concealing the export (according to the indictment), so if that's true, that's also not going to be a pleasant day in court.
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Niel



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Guy Savage to face US export charges Reply with quote

cybershooters wrote:

Hatton rounds sound a bit OTT.


Sounds like they treated him as an armed criminal who's already guilty in their minds...

"An indictment is merely an accusation and each defendant is presumed innocent until and unless they are proven guilty."
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Rob



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Niel. I don't know whether he is guilty or not, but do the alleged offenses warrant being taken down by paramilitary ninjas using live rounds in a quiet London street? Who did that risk assessment? It's redolent of the way the police are turning into a paramilitary force, who are gung ho for a bit of action. Lucky for him he didn't have a dark complexion or they might have emptied a Glock into his head.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was previously arrested and one of those charges was that he had a PPK in the pocket of his jacket that was in his office, (but that went nowhere because it wasn't illegal) so the police probably decided he might be carrying a gun and proceeded from there.

On the flip side, last I heard he's got heart trouble and had an operation for it, so being arrested by AFOs probably didn't help.

Quote:
"This Iraq situation has companies banging on our door for M16s because we are the only supplier outside the U.S. since the State Department has a lump of granite up their asses with exporting machine guns to anywhere. I'm not prepared to have bureaucrats in another country tell me how to run my business in the UK, which is incidentally their only reliable ally on the planet."


Although he doesn't do himself any favours...
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Last edited by cybershooters on Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rob



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's hardly surprising that an arms dealer might have access to arms. However, that hardly means that they need to blow the bloody doors off every time the police want to speak to them. This was overkill, and given the lethal nature of these rounds, I use the term advisedly.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But he wasn't just an arms dealer, the evidence was that he might have previously been carrying a loaded gun around with him. Not sure why they waited for him to get into his car before they shot the tyres out though, they could have arrested him in his driveway for example. Or maybe they tried to do that and he'd already gotten into his car. Does say "wrestled to the ground", so he could have been just about to get into his car.

Mind you it also says he's 34. Laughing Try 43.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but to me this sounds more like a case of having the kit and wanting to use it. Guy Savage is a businessman and registered arms dealer, I don't think he needed the full Iranian Embassy treatment, do you?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently he's looking at the same sort of prison time, if he pleads guilty and doesn't fight extradition then the sentencing guidelines are for a minimum of 14 years in prison if he pleads guilty on all counts, I'm told. (Or 140 years if he's found guilty after pleading not guilty). If he gets a transfer back to the UK then under prison guidelines his sentence will be reduced by 50% so that means seven years, which is what some murderers get.

I'm not surprised they used armed police to arrest him, but Hatton rounds does sound a bit dramatic. On the other hand we weren't there so we don't know exactly what happened.

Daily Mail. According to that they blocked off his car them immobilised it.

Bit of artful reporting, they don't mention that the court in his previous case also ruled the police had a vendetta against him and they don't mention the conviction was overturned until right at the end. They weren't prohibited weapons "in a cache", that's what his appeal was about.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US authorities always have the most draconian sentences so as to ensure a guilty plea regardless of the facts. Faced with something ludicrous like 75 years if found guilty, or 7 years if you plead guilty, most people take the easy course, and the prosecutors chalk up another win. Given the pathetic one sided extradition treaty with have with the USA, I'd advise him to claim political asylum somewhere outside the EU!
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110329/NEWS03/103290334/Sabre-officials-arms-trafficking-case-plead-guilty-agree-help-investigation-owner?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE
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Rob



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This story pretty well confirms what I thought would happen. The Americans cop a plea bargain and the Brit gets stiffed. Nothing new there.
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Carrot Cruncher



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered the possibility that he might, in fact, be guilty ?
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cybershooters
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's SOP to go after the person at the top, and it's a lot easier to do that if the people below him get plea deals and turn witness against him.

Given the amount of documentation that they have of wrong-doing plus the number of witnesses, I can't seriously imagine Guy would want to go to trial frankly, contrary to what it says in that report. Like I said, if he pleads guilty on all charges he's apparently looking at 14 years, if he gets transferred back to the UK (likely) he would be sentenced under UK guidelines which are 50%, so seven years. Possibly his lawyer can talk the Justice Dept. into dropping some of the weaker charges, but he's looking at several years in prison for sure.
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