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.22 Rifle: vertical strings, not nice round groups

 
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Peter B



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: .22 Rifle: vertical strings, not nice round groups Reply with quote

Anyone here able to suggest what I'm doing wrong when groups
(quite tight, often a single ragged hole) shot at 25 metres tend to
consist of shots that sit one on top of the other instead of in a shape
that's vaguely circular?

Sight picture seems (stress seems) to be consistent, as do other
factors e.g. establishing NPOA, etc. Seems a bit rough to blame the
kit or ammo.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

best wishes
Peter B
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JonathanL
Certified Gun Nut


Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 1013
Location: North East

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: .22 Rifle: vertical strings, not nice round groups Reply with quote

Peter B wrote:
Anyone here able to suggest what I'm doing wrong when groups
(quite tight, often a single ragged hole) shot at 25 metres tend to
consist of shots that sit one on top of the other instead of in a shape
that's vaguely circular?

Sight picture seems (stress seems) to be consistent, as do other
factors e.g. establishing NPOA, etc. Seems a bit rough to blame the
kit or ammo.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

best wishes
Peter B


Something loose, perhaps? Barrel heating and pressing against the wood work - seems unlikely in a .22 though. Vertical stringing is usually a sign of varying charge weights and, hence, velocity. Again though, I'm not sure how likely it is with .22rf ammo at that distance.

Get someone else to shoot it and see how they do, that will at least remove one component from the mix.

J.
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Carrot Cruncher



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 751

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What position are you firing from when this happens ?
Do consecutive shots rise or descend to produce the vertical line ?
All ammunition from same batch ?
Try firing from a rest, see what happens, report back.
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4587

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the target between shots can cause vertical stringing. Might be the barrel warming up. What are you using?
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Only three things are certain: death, taxes and stupid gun laws.
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Peter B



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the various suggestions. This has happenedónot always, but often enough for me to think I am causing itówith the following kit:

Vostok b/a single-shot hefty target rifle, single-point sling, ring & peep sights
Marlin 25N b/a mag-fed, two-point sling, open sights
Marlin 7000 s/auto (heavy barrel), two-point sling, 4x scope
Ruger 10/22 heavy barrel, single-point sling, 4x scope

All shot from sitting on a chair, resting forearm on the bench, with some minimal aid to comfort. Looking through the sights, this is a consistent position.

In order to disturb my position as little as possible I've not used a spotting scope to see where individual shots are printing.

As I said, this doesn't always happen. Both the Vostok and the Ruger have given me NSRA 10-bull cards with only 3 points dropped. The Marlin 7000 is, I'm pretty sure, capable of doing as well.

Ammo has been Eley Club, all from the same batch. I wouldn't have thought that a warming .22 barrel would contribute much... and a rough inpression is that these strings occur after about 20 rounds have been fired, in any case.

Light on the range, however, has been very variable.

Hope all that helps in solving the problem.

best wishes
Peter B
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Mick F
Certified Gun Nut


Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: S X

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrot Cruncher wrote:
What position are you firing from when this happens ?
Do consecutive shots rise or descend to produce the vertical line ?
All ammunition from same batch ?
Try firing from a rest, see what happens, report back.


Peter,
I think Carrot has the best response. If in a rest it still does the same thing, you can eliminate you from the equation and leave it entirely to the rifle.

For my limited experience, that kind of grouping is either as Jonathan says, loose bits on the rifle, different eye relief or slipping of the forearm. Using a rest will eliminate you from the equation.
Mick
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4587

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter B wrote:
All shot from sitting on a chair


Is it a light chair? What can happen is if you lean forward on to a table you force the chair back slightly, this leads to you tilting the muzzle up and causes vertical stringing. You can try from a rest, but that just narrows it down to you. Try from prone as well.
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Carrot Cruncher



Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 751

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A slightly loose optical sight can set back slightly with each shot, even if it feels firm when you wiggle it. But if it's happening on all your rifles it would seem pretty certain it's you.

I don't coach these days, and never liked doing it. However, for a while it was part of my job and I was well trained by the Special Courses Division at the School of Infantry on the "Shoot to Kill" programme. Not so sensitive about terminology in those days ! I found out in practice that what they told me was always right. Vertical stringing could usually be put down to poor breath control or a virtually unnoticeable set back of the shooters position on recoil, maybe just elbows sinking into soil, but the same applies to other surfaces where they may slip slightly. The shooter compensates subconsciously but is then relying on muscle power to pull the muzzle back on target rather than using solid bone support to support the rifle. This will affect the shot even if the same sight picture is obtained.
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