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Last Of 6 Met Officers Found Not Guilty
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Last Of 6 Met Officers Found Not Guilty Reply with quote

http://www.policeoracle.com/news/detail.cfm?id=11358
Quote:
Last Of 6 Met Officers Found Not Guilty
14-Sep-06

Officers cleared in relation to Countryside Alliance demonstrations....

Officers cleared in relation to Countryside Alliance demonstrations.

Yesterday, a serving MPS officer appeared in court charged in relation to the Countryside Alliance demostrations in 2004. He was cleared of all charges against him.

The officer was the last of six MPS officers to appear before a court in relation to these demonstrations. They have all been found not guilty before a court, or had their charges dismissed.

Sir Ian Blair, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said:

"I will be meeting with the officers who faced criminal proceedings after the events of September 2004.

"For whilst every serving police officer understands that we must be held fully accountable for our actions, it needs to be pointed out that for these six officers - as well as the many other officers who lived under the shadow of prosecution, and for their families and loved ones, this has been a long and difficult two years."

Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur, in charge of Central Operations said:

"The MPS polices over 10,000 events and demonstrations every year. The training and continuous assessment channelled in to public order policing is dedicated, professional and unrivalled. Whilst some of these events are planned, and some are unplanned, our police officers work together with all organisers and communities to ensure that events, demonstrations and protests go smoothly, almost every single day of the year.

"These officers policed a very long and very difficult demonstration on 15th September 2004. They were faced with a hard core of protestors who were both determined and violent, uninterested in lawful protest and intent on breaking barriers to gain entry in to the Houses of Parliament.

"Anyone who has seen the video footage taken during the demonstration would be left in no doubt that these were incidents of extreme violence directed towards our officers. Police officers - doing what is essentially their job - were faced with a barrage of missiles that included fireworks, sections of scaffolding and barriers. Sixty police officers were injured that day, mainly as a result of crowd action.

"Every day police officers are required to go in to situations where bravery is not just expected, but demanded. These officers do this without question. Clearly there are lessons to be learnt, and we will be looking to work with the IPCC and the CPS to examine what these lessons are."

Chief Superintendent David George, in charge of the Territorial Support
Group said:

"For a significant period of time a number of my officers have been under the thrall of investigation, and have been subject to intense scrutiny. During this period they and all of their colleagues have acted with the utmost professionalism and dignity. I am pleased that today, almost two years on marks the end of any criminal proceedings and I hope that the officers can move on and fully focus on supporting that MPS, and keeping London safe."

Now obviously we can expect the usual anti-police rhetoric on here. Just a couple of points:
a) They were tried and found not guilty beyond reasonable doubt or had the cases dismissed.
b) I've spoken with an officer who was there and he had a totally (funnily enough) different viewpoint of the demonstration and who started what, contrary to the views expressed on here and in the shooting press.
c) Nearly two years on and it's resolved.
Mk6 and CBA on awaiting incoming.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Anyone who has seen the video footage taken during the demonstration would be left in no doubt that these were incidents of extreme violence directed towards our officers. Police officers - doing what is essentially their job - were faced with a barrage of missiles that included fireworks, sections of scaffolding and barriers. Sixty police officers were injured that day, mainly as a result of crowd action."

Unfortunately I have never seen unedited footage, nor has anyone outside the MPS as far as I'm aware, so we the great unwashed cannot comment. I am somewhat bemused by the claim that 60 officers were injured, when official police reports to the Home Office at the end of the incident stated that 16 protestors and 1 Police Officer had been injured (none seriously). Is this revisionism? Otherwise it still looks bad - 16:1 is not exactly proportionate response!

Hopefully this will draw a line under the incident, but the long term damage remains the same, there are many citizens who would previously have been considered supportive of the authorities, middle-class "pillars of society" types, who are now much less trusting. There is little prospect of anyone arranging a major peaceful demo in London again without having their own evidential video coverage available. The "anti's" have done so for years, but under the current regime all lawful protestors have effectively become "anti's".

Cheers,

craggy_steve
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
"Anyone who has seen the video footage taken during the demonstration would be left in no doubt that these were incidents of extreme violence directed towards our officers. Police officers - doing what is essentially their job - were faced with a barrage of missiles that included fireworks, sections of scaffolding and barriers. Sixty police officers were injured that day, mainly as a result of crowd action."

Ask for a copy under FoI. As it's not being used in any criminal matters now....

craggy_steve wrote:
Unfortunately I have never seen unedited footage, nor has anyone outside the MPS as far as I'm aware, so we the great unwashed cannot comment. I am somewhat bemused by the claim that 60 officers were injured, when official police reports to the Home Office at the end of the incident stated that 16 protestors and 1 Police Officer had been injured (none seriously). Is this revisionism? Otherwise it still looks bad - 16:1 is not exactly proportionate response!

Neither is 16 to 60! I'm sure CA have their own 'revised casualties' list, but as I'm sure you know, casualties are not always known at the time.
What's the conviction rate then?

craggy_steve wrote:
Hopefully this will draw a line under the incident, but the long term damage remains the same, there are many citizens who would previously have been considered supportive of the authorities, middle-class "pillars of society" types, who are now much less trusting. There is little prospect of anyone arranging a major peaceful demo in London again without having their own evidential video coverage available. The "anti's" have done so for years, but under the current regime all lawful protestors have effectively become "anti's".

Cheers,

craggy_steve

I agree that long term damage has taken place. Beforehand the CA and the group(s) that allied itself to those demonstrators were treated as understandably upset individuals who had a legitimate protest due to the machinations of a determined few. Now they're lumped into the 'not so lawful, in fact likely to be violent' protest pile, sadly.

Simply because Parliament votes that you hop on your right leg every Saturday morning does not give you the right to demonstrate and protest other than peacefully. There's another avenue and that's the ballot box.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Simply because Parliament votes that you hop on your right leg every Saturday morning does not give you the right to demonstrate and protest other than peacefully. There's another avenue and that's the ballot box.


Not aware that we have a means to vote against the Police. If we did there would be several CCs unemployed.

Cheers,

craggy_steve
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
Simply because Parliament votes that you hop on your right leg every Saturday morning does not give you the right to demonstrate and protest other than peacefully. There's another avenue and that's the ballot box.


Not aware that we have a means to vote against the Police. If we did there would be several CCs unemployed.
Cheers,
craggy_steve

As you are aware, the Police are simply the servants of the public and their elected representatives. If you want to vote for a Govt. that allows protesters to run amok through Parliament and physically assault Police officers, feel free to do so. I shan't be.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As you are aware, the Police are simply the servants of the public and their elected representatives. If you want to vote for a Govt. that allows protesters to run amok through Parliament and physically assault Police officers, feel free to do so. I shan't be.


Servants of the Home Office. No one else. Not me, not you, unless it coincides with HO policy. If it contributes to achieving targets "cost effectively" the Police will do it, if it doesn't then the first line of action is the press, it never ceases to amaze me how much the Police cannot do until one involve the newspapers and the impossible suddenly becomes doable. Servants of the public is at best a bad joke, and in reality commonly untrue.

Dunno what the relevance is of the rest of your comment unless you're trying to be inflammatory, not aware that any party is proposing to permit protests inside Parliament or legitimise assaults against the Police.

Cheers,

Steve
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
As you are aware, the Police are simply the servants of the public and their elected representatives. If you want to vote for a Govt. that allows protesters to run amok through Parliament and physically assault Police officers, feel free to do so. I shan't be.


Servants of the Home Office.

How wrong can you be? Where does 50% of the budget come from? Who elects those people? Who heads up the Home Office? Last time I looked, both were 'our' elected representatives.

craggy_steve wrote:
No one else. Not me, not you, unless it coincides with HO policy. If it contributes to achieving targets "cost effectively" the Police will do it, if it doesn't then the first line of action is the press, it never ceases to amaze me how much the Police cannot do until one involve the newspapers and the impossible suddenly becomes doable. Servants of the public is at best a bad joke, and in reality commonly untrue.

That simply shows you have little or even no idea what a Police Force does. I rang up one of our Divisions chasing up what was a 'shift officer.' There's so few 'shift officers' nowadays, they're all on these pro-active teams that seem to spin out from the Home Office every month or so. As the Home Office is lead by our elected representatives...... Servants of the public they are and long may they remain so. Now if you want a Police Force that allows protestors to invade Parliament and suffer attacks from clearly violent individuals judging by the prosecutions, you can vote for a party that allows it. Probably the anarchist one does.

craggy_steve wrote:
Dunno what the relevance is of the rest of your comment unless you're trying to be inflammatory, not aware that any party is proposing to permit protests inside Parliament or legitimise assaults against the Police.

Cheers,

Steve

It's more to do with what the obvious intention of the particular group of protestors we're talking about was, bearing in mind their other antics. Mr Ferry ring any bells?. If you feel a 'not so peaceful' demonstration is the way forward, please vote for a party that allows it. If you don't, then please do not. I've nailed my colours to the mast of not voting for a party that allows such 'not so peaceful' demonstrations.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How wrong can you be? Where does 50% of the budget come from? Who elects those people? Who heads up the Home Office? Last time I looked, both were 'our' elected representatives.


And next you're going to tell me that the Home Secretary (who only regulates and influences a small proportion of decisions taken by the unelected civil servants in the HO) is doing what we want? We would as a nation say 'yes' to Capital Punishment, 'yes' to bashing intruders, 'no' to ID cards, 'no' to foreign workers...... etc. Even you don't believe that the HO serves you and me, or that the HO direction to the Police is intended to serve you and me.

Quote:
they're all on these pro-active teams that seem to spin out from the Home Office every month or so


ROTFLMSO

Quote:
It's more to do with what the obvious intention of the particular group of protestors we're talking about.......


I think if that had been the intention of the protestors the Police would have been overwhelmed very, very quickly. It may have been the intention of a small subset, on the other hand as it seems evident from the e-mails released that the Home Office was expecting that there would be crowd trouble and was very concerned about the Policing strategy when the Met had no such intelligence, perhaps we should start suspecting whether the situation was aroused by "agents provocateur"!

As I recall Mr. Ferry's antics were peaceful and non-violent, unless shocking lying windbags is a violent crime Wink

Cheers,

Steve
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
How wrong can you be? Where does 50% of the budget come from? Who elects those people? Who heads up the Home Office? Last time I looked, both were 'our' elected representatives.


And next you're going to tell me that the Home Secretary (who only regulates and influences a small proportion of decisions taken by the unelected civil servants in the HO) is doing what we want? We would as a nation say 'yes' to Capital Punishment, 'yes' to bashing intruders, 'no' to ID cards, 'no' to foreign workers...... etc. Even you don't believe that the HO serves you and me, or that the HO direction to the Police is intended to serve you and me.

Maybe not, but I also believe in peaceful protest and the ballot box. The public have spoken, bless 'em. Anyway, capital punishment is a none starter. ECHR and the HR Act.

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
they're all on these pro-active teams that seem to spin out from the Home Office every month or so


ROTFLMSO

Thought the phrase was ROTFLMAO?

craggy_steve wrote:
[
Quote:
It's more to do with what the obvious intention of the particular group of protestors we're talking about.......


I think if that had been the intention of the protestors the Police would have been overwhelmed very, very quickly. It may have been the intention of a small subset, on the other hand as it seems evident from the e-mails released that the Home Office was expecting that there would be crowd trouble and was very concerned about the Policing strategy when the Met had no such intelligence, perhaps we should start suspecting whether the situation was aroused by "agents provocateur"!

On both sides? Wink

craggy_steve wrote:
As I recall Mr. Ferry's antics were peaceful and non-violent, unless shocking lying windbags is a violent crime Wink

Cheers,

Steve

I didn't say it wasn't none violent, simply invading the chamber; which is unlawful and whilst a victory was rather a pyrrhic one.
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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BobHarget



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyway, capital punishment is a none starter. ECHR and the HR Act.


Unless you are innocent and it is by Police action! Wink
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobHarget wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, capital punishment is a none starter. ECHR and the HR Act.

Unless you are innocent and it is by Police action! Wink

Or reside in a school in a certain scottish town, or live in a market town near marlborough, or seemingly if you go to many schools in America Wink Wink
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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craggy_steve



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyway, capital punishment is a none starter. ECHR and the HR Act.


Of course, if we had democracy neither would exist!

Rolling on the floor laughing my socks off (the genteel version!).

Quote:
On both sides?


More than two sides in this game, unless one accepts that the antis and the PLP are the same side (which given LAWS may well be the case). Seriously, I wonder at times. Labour knew that passions were bound to be inflamed, but there was never any genuine attempt to achieve a concensus, just suppression of the red-coated upper-crust toff hunters without regard to their rights as citizens or to animal welfare. Given the reponsibilities of parliamentarians, and that many of them broke their oaths in pursuing this legislation (nothing new there I guess), what do they expect? We've been very lucky so far that there hasn't been serious bloodshed as a result of this provocation, and the Police, throughout the whole saga, have been as much use as a second-hand toffee (which I blame on the HO - the rot comes from the top).

Quite ironic that the antis have become "animal rights terrorists" in the eyes of the Govt now, they were not such a problem when they were invading peoples property armed with sticks and noxious sprays, attacking and injuring hunters and doing criminal damage on private land - somehow I don't think it's the attitude of Police that has changed, just that the puppet-masters at the HO no longer have a reason to tolerate them. Which goes back to the whole issue of who the Police work for, they certainly weren't working for those citizens who got assaulted by violent trespassers on their own land so who were they working for?

I could go one, there are plenty of instances which are nothing to do with fieldsports, but it's boring. I'm sure that there are coppers who are trying to serve the public, but who cannot devote the time to it because of all the targets and HO initiatives to be fulfilled, but coppers are not "the Police" any more than you and I are the "general public".

Cheers,

craggy_steve


Last edited by craggy_steve on Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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craggy_steve



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Or reside in a school in a certain scottish town, or live in a market town near marlborough, or seemingly if you go to many schools in America


Even you understand the difference between capital punishment and murder - I hope Wink

Cheers,

craggy_steve
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
Or reside in a school in a certain scottish town, or live in a market town near marlborough, or seemingly if you go to many schools in America


Even you understand the difference between capital punishment and murder - I hope Wink

Cheers,

craggy_steve

I do, but does Bob who wrote the original comment?
Cheers
Mick Fidgeon:-)
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Mick F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craggy_steve wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, capital punishment is a none starter. ECHR and the HR Act.


Of course, if we had democracy neither would exist!

Rolling on the floor laughing my socks off (the genteel version!).

Quote:
On both sides?


More than two sides in this game, unless one accepts that the antis and the PLP are the same side (which given LAWS may well be the case). Seriously, I wonder at times. Labour knew that passions were bound to be inflamed, but there was never any genuine attempt to achieve a concensus, just suppression of the red-coated upper-crust toff hunters without regard to their rights as citizens or to animal welfare. Given the reponsibilities of parliamentarians, and that many of them broke their oaths in pursuing this legislation (nothing new there I guess), what do they expect? We've been very lucky so far that there hasn't been serious bloodshed as a result of this provocation, and the Police, throughout the whole saga, have been as much use as a second-hand toffee (which I blame on the HO - the rot comes from the top).

The thing is, you could say that about any discriminatory legislation. I don't see smokers causing problems in Parliament Square (yet Wink ). Whatever your views, they are elected and pass legislation they feel fit.

craggy_steve wrote:
Quite ironic that the antis have become "animal rights terrorists" in the eyes of the Govt now, they were not such a problem when they were invading peoples property armed with sticks and noxious sprays, attacking and injuring hunters and doing criminal damage on private land - somehow I don't think it's the attitude of Police that has changed, just that the puppet-masters at the HO no longer have a reason to tolerate them. Which goes back to the whole issue of who the Police work for, they certainly weren't working for those citizens who got assaulted by violent trespassers on their own land so who were they working for?

That may be because theirs money in Huntingdon etc?
Cheers
Mick fidgeon:-)
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