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can someone confirm the following are correct

 
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imissed



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: can someone confirm the following are correct Reply with quote

i have recently been offered permission to shoot on a farmers land so i thought why not my mate who often shoots with me on a sunday at clay club wants to come along too can some one confirm the following for me #

1.he can shoot my gun at the club under my supervision as its a approved clay shooting club

2.i can shoot on private land providing i dont allow my projectiles to go off the lad i am autherised to shoot on and i stay away from roads and public rights of way

3.he cant shoot my shot gun on private land as he dosent hold a shot gun cert holder but would be able to accompany me and shoot a air rifle

thanks in advance can any one point me in the direction of some infomation on shooting on private land i want to be fully clued up before i partake

ta
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cybershooters
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 4587

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually no to #1 and maybe yes to #3. Clubs can get an exemption under 11(6) to allow people to shoot artificial targets but if there isn't one in place, the people shooting need certificates. On private land the "occupier" can lend a shotgun to another person to use in their presence under 11(5), "occupier" has been construed to mean a person who has the right to hunt on the land, although your local police may have a different opinion.

Quote:
(5)A person may, without holding a shot gun certificate, borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupierís presence.
(6)A person may, without holding a shot gun certificate, use a shot gun at a time and place approved for shooting at artificial targets by the chief officer of police for the area in which that place is situated.


There is no club approval process for clay clubs per se, that's only for "rifle and muzzle-loading pistol" clubs, hence all the complications with anyone who wants to take up practical shotgun or use an LBR as there's no legal way for them to try it out as club approval only applies to rifles and muzzle-loading pistols.

And this is also why the media gets their knickers in a twist about minors being granted shotgun certificates, because they don't understand it's about being able to use the shotgun, not owning one necessarily.
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Steve.

Only three things are certain: death, taxes and stupid gun laws.
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Richard Loweth



Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On private land the "occupier" can lend a shotgun to another person to use in their presence under 11(5), "occupier" has been construed to mean a person who has the right to hunt on the land, although your local police may have a different opinion.

Correct because in law an occupier is a legal person with the rights that pertain to the premises, or land, that he or she "occupies" no matter how temporarily. Thus even a day permit to shoot pigeons is equivalent to occupation.

Quote:
2.i can shoot on private land providing i dont allow my projectiles to go off the lad i am autherised to shoot on and i stay away from roads and public rights of way


This is not quite right. Any person may progress along the public highway with a weapon with lawful reason and subject to any law about being covered or uncovered loaded or not loaded etc.

But a "public right of way" is not the same as a "road" or more correctly "public highway" BTW. A footpath is a "public right of way" but it and the land which it crosses will not be publicly owned. Thus if I am the occupier of land I can stand on any public footpath on my land and shoot from it or across it.

The confusion arises because of misinterpretation of the often quoted passage about shooting within "forty feet (or some such) of the centre of a public highway". In fact the whole context is "to the endangerment of users (or some such)".

Otherwise it would effectively be illegal to use an airgun in one's back garden etc., etc.

Thus again I can build my pigeon hide in a hedge backing onto a road providing that when I shoot I don't "endanger" users of that highway. Presumably when this was written those using horses or driving animals that might have bolted at the sound of the gunshot.
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imissed



Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the advice

shooting continues to be a nightmare its a good job this sites here i want to keep withen the law but i feel like a right tit ringing up the poilice fd and asking these kind of questions that i think they think i should know them and i imaging them putting big red crosses on my file everytime i do

i think ill leave the shotgun at home and test the water with the air rifle a few times before i get all gun ho with my full arsenal
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Richard Loweth



Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you joined BASC you could ring them up and ask them the questions and not worry about red xxx's!

I don't know of any firearms department that would find fault with a query about what you can and can't do.

I've been shooting since 1976 with a certificate, earlier without one, and I only know the "answer" to 3 because I asked Northamptonshire Police just last year the same question regarding my 16 year old son and a day's pigeon shooting I had booked near Wellingborough.

No police firearms department expects you to be an expert on fireams law...just a safe and responsible gun owner...who if he has a doubt about what he can and can't do is prepared to ask.
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